Crazy Together

35. Creating Sensory-Friendly Interior Spaces

Esme makes her glorious return to the recording studio to discuss how our environments and internal spaces (e.g., home, work, school, etc.) can impact neurodivergent people with sensory sensitivities. She and Marcus then share a few tips for making your home more comfortable for the neurodiverse in your lives, as well as considerations for advocating for accommodations in your workplace. ALSO: Marcus calls out the Guggenheim. Why? You’ll have to listen to find out.
 
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Sources for this episode include:
Xirou, Maria. “Embracing Neurodiversity: Designing Inclusive Spaces.” British Institute of Interior Design, 28 Mar. 2024, https://biid.org.uk/resources/embracing-neurodiversity-designing-inclusive-spaces. 
“An Introduction to Neuroaesthetics in Wellness Interior Design.” Biofilico, 2025, https://biofilico.com/news/neuro-aesthetics-in-wellness-interior-design-healthy-buildings. 
Fazzare, Elizabeth. “Does Neuroaesthetics Have Design Down to a Science?” Architectural Digest, 29 Nov. 2022, https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/neuroaesthetics-can-designs-positive-effects-be-scientifically-proven. 
Arnwine, Bonnie. “Home Sensory Room Ideas: Create a Calming and Stimulating Space for All Ages.” National Autism Resources, 17 Mar. 2025, https://nationalautismresources.com/blog/home-sensory-room-ideas-create-a-calming-and-stimulating-space-for-all-ages. 
“Creating a Sensory-Friendly Environment.” Guggenheim Museums and Foundation, 2025, https://www.guggenheim.org/accessibility/guggenheim-for-all/guggenheim-for-all-toolkit/creating-a-sensory-friendly-environment.  
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34. Is Capitalism Bad for Our Mental Health?

PROVOCTIVE TITLE WARNING! Content might be more nuanced than the title suggests. Listener discretion is encouraged.
 
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Sources for this episode include:
Zeira, Anna. "Mental Health Challenges Related to Neoliberal Capitalism in the United States." Community Mental Health Journal, vol. 58, no. 2, May 2021, pp. 205–212. PubMed Central, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8145185/. 
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33. Summer, Summer, Summertime

Marcus and Esme are on vacation this week, but they didn't want to leave you hanging. So they have compiled some of their favorite clips into one fun-filled episode. They will be back with a new episode next week. Enjoy!
 
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32. Business Horoscopes: Part 2

Marcus and Esme continue their discussion about personality type assessments and explore the ways in which even more reliable tools like the Big Five or Five Factor assessment are being misused by employers and the developers of certain talent management platforms. They also close the book on the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI), and share some pretty shocking details about Isabel Briggs Myers’ personal biases. 
 
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Support our show:
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Sources for this episode include:
Zárate-Torres, Rodrigo, and Juan C. Correa. "How Good Is the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator for Predicting Leadership-Related Behaviors?" Frontiers in Psychology, vol. 14, 1 Mar. 2023, https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2023.940961. 
Stromberg, Joseph, and Estelle Caswell. "Why the Myers-Briggs Personality Test Is Totally Meaningless." Vox, 8 Oct. 2015, https://www.vox.com/2014/7/15/5881947/myers-briggs-personality-test-meaningless. 
Spichak, Simon. “The Racist Origin of the Popular Myers-Briggs® Test.” Medium, 2 May 2021, https://medium.com/@simonspichak/the-racist-origin-of-the-popular-myers-briggs-test-49c735da660a. 
Roccas, Sonia, et al. “The Big Five Personality Factors and Personal Values.” Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, vol. 28, no. 6, 2002, pp. 789–801, https://doi.org/10.1177/0146167202289008.
Kang, Weixi, et al. "Big Five Personality Traits in the Workplace: Investigating Personality Differences between Employees, Supervisors, Managers, and Entrepreneurs." Frontiers in Psychology, vol. 14, 28 Mar. 2023, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10089283/. 
Hardy, Benjamin. “Personality Isn't Permanent—Or Is It? The Answer Is No.” Psychology Today, 12 June 2020, https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/quantum-leaps/202006/personality-isnt-permanent-or-is-it-the-answer-is-no. 
Prins, Seth J., et al. "The Serpent of Their Agonies: Exploitation As Structural Determinant of Mental Illness." Epidemiology, vol. 32, no. 2, Mar. 2021, pp. 303–09. PubMed Central, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7872213/. 
 
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31. Business Horoscopes: Part 1

Marcus and Esme examine the super squishy pseudoscience behind personality type assessments such as the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI). 
 
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Sources for this episode include:
“The History of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator.” The Myers-Briggs Company, https://eu.themyersbriggs.com/en/tools/MBTI/Myers-Briggs-history. 
Zárate-Torres, Rodrigo, and Juan C. Correa. “How Good Is the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator for Predicting Leadership-Related Behaviors?” Frontiers in Psychology, vol. 14, 2 Mar. 2023, article 940961, https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2023.940961.   
Stromberg, Joseph, and Estelle Caswell. “Why the Myers-Briggs Personality Test Is Totally Meaningless.” Vox, 8 Oct. 2015, https://www.vox.com/2014/7/15/5881947/myers-briggs-personality-test-meaningless. 
Spichak, Simon. “The Racist Origin of the Popular Myers-Briggs® Test.” Medium, 2 May 2021, https://medium.com/@simonspichak/the-racist-origin-of-the-popular-myers-briggs-test-49c735da660a. 
“Free Personality Test, Type Descriptions, Relationship and Career Advice.” 16Personalities, NERIS Analytics Limited, https://www.16personalities.com/.
 “How To Recognize and Lessen the Barnum Effect.” Cleveland Clinic Health Essentials, 2 Aug. 2024, https://health.clevelandclinic.org/barnum-effect.. 
 
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30. Is There a Link Between Creativity and Mental Illness or Neurodivergence?

Marcus and Esme pay tribute to the lives and works of Sly Stone and Brian Wilson–two of the most wildly creative, innovative, and influential singer/songwriters the world has ever known. While sharing their illuminating, entertaining, and occasionally heartbreaking stories, Marcus and Esme also confront the classic trope of the “Tortured Artist” to determine if there is a connection between creativity and mental illness, mood disorders, and/or neurodivergence. 
 
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Sources for this episode include:
Sheffield, Rob. “Sly Stone Believed Everybody Is a Star: The Massive Legacy of an Avant-Funk Revolutionary.” Rolling Stone, 10 June 2025, https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/sly-stone-sly-and-the-family-stone-tribute-1235361170. 
Edwards, Gavin, and Daniel Kreps. “Brian Wilson, Beach Boys Co-Founder and Architect of Pop, Dead at 82.” Rolling Stone, 11 June 2025, https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/brian-wilson-beach-boys-dead-1234810073 
Carlin, Peter Ames. Catch a Wave: The Rise, Fall, and Redemption of the Beach Boys' Brian Wilson. Rodale, 2006.
Sly Lives! (aka The Burden of Black Genius). Directed by Questlove, Onyx Collective and MRC Non-Fiction, 2025.
Myers, Owen. “The Burden of Black Genius: Documentary Examines Career of Sly Stone.” The Guardian, 13 Feb. 2025, https://www.theguardian.com/film/2025/feb/13/black-genius-documentary 
 
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29. It Turns Out Everyone is All Up in Their Feelings

And when Marcus and Esme say “everyone,” they mean everyone. It turns out that human beings might not be the rational creatures we like to think we are. According to neuroscientist Antonio Damasio, it seems our decision-making abilities are guided and greatly influenced by our emotions.
 
In this episode, Marcus and Esme discuss Damasio’s theories and how they might explain some of the philosophical and political differences in our county, and why so many of us are susceptible to misinformation and irrational decision-making. They also discuss how this research opens the door to potentially reaching out to people whose beliefs seem to be so completely different from our own. 
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Support our show:
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Sources for this episode include:
Damasio, Antonio. Descartes' Error: Emotion, Reason, and the Human Brain. 27 Sept. 2005. Internet Archive, https://archive.org/details/antonio-damasio-descartes-error. 
Markwica, Robin. A Theory of Emotional Choice for International Relations. The Max Weber Programme Blog, 15 Mar. 2018, blogs.eui.eu/maxweberprogramme/emotional-choice-international-relations. 
 
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28. To Sleep Perchance to Pay Attention in School the Next Day

Like a lot of people with ADHD, Marcus and Esme have trouble falling asleep and sometimes even staying asleep. They share some of the challenges they’ve experienced, as well as some of the early challenges they’ve observed with their daughter. They also discuss some of the strategies and resources for falling asleep the O’Kayviuses have tried over the years and how they’re helping their daughter develop good sleep hygiene (even though Marcus hates that term). PLUS: we learn that Esme sometimes talks in her sleep. Not just the occasional mumble or murmur, mind you, but fully engaged conversations with her eyes wide-open. Her somniloquies are not always that convincing, though. Unbound from the logic of the waking world, she’ll sometimes introduce fantastical elements to her conversations, like the time she accused Marcus of letting a noteworthy English Werewolf escape on his watch. It was a baseless accusation, of course, but Marcus still feels guilty about it to this day. 
 
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Support our show:
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Sources for this episode include:
Pacheco, Danielle. "ADHD and Sleep Problems: How Are They Related?" Sleep Foundation, 30 Apr. 2024, https://www.sleepfoundation.org/mental-health/adhd-and-sleep. 
ADDitude Editors. "Night Owls with ADHD: How Staying up Late Boosts Productivity." ADDitude Magazine, 9 May 2025, https://www.additudemag.com/night-owls-adhd-adults-staying-up-late. 
French, Blandine, et al. "The Impact of Sleep Difficulties in Children with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder on the Family: A Thematic Analysis." Journal of Clinical Sleep Medicine, vol. 19, no. 10, 1 Oct. 2023, pp. 1735-1741, https://jcsm.aasm.org/doi/10.5664/jcsm.10662. 
Cleveland Clinic. "Diaphragmatic Breathing." Cleveland Clinic, 30 Mar. 2022, https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/9445-diaphragmatic-breathing.
Hvolby, Allan. "Associations of Sleep Disturbance with ADHD: Implications for Treatment." Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, vol. 7, no. 1, 17 Aug. 2014, pp. 1-18, https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4340974/.  
 
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27. Unreliable Narrators

Marcus and Esme discuss the challenges caused by “unreliable narrators” – i.e., people and organizations who masquerade as reliable sources of information, but whose real purpose is to uncritically amplify content created by third parties with their own agendas. These unreliable narrators play a critical role in spreading misinformation, which has a tremendous impact on our mental health and well-being.
 
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Sources for this episode include:
Battle, Patricia. "Amazon CEO Gives Hard-Nosed Message to Employees." MSN, 1 month ago, https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amazon-ceo-gives-hard-nosed-message-to-employees/ar-AA1CHE98 
University College London. "Antidepressant withdrawal symptoms more common among long-term users." ScienceDaily, 21 May 2025, https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2025/05/250521204008.htm. 
Université de Genève. "Could AI understand emotions better than we do?" ScienceDaily, 22 May 2025, https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2025/05/250522124755.htm. 
 
Our theme music:
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26. Love and Anxiety

Marcus and Esme fulfill a long-delayed promise by completing the Love and trilogy, and it only took them 23 episodes! Go back and listen to Love and ADHD (episode 2) and Love and Depression (episode 3) if you want to experience the full scope of their non-neurotypical love story. We promise it’s a better trilogy than the Godfather (but that’s mostly because Godfather part III was terrible).
 
Support our show:
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Sources for this episode include:
Mayo Clinic Staff. "Anxiety Disorders - Symptoms and Causes." Mayo Clinic, 4 May 2018, https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/anxiety/symptoms-causes/syc-20350961 
Mayo Clinic Staff. "Social Anxiety Disorder (Social Phobia) - Symptoms and Causes." Mayo Clinic, 19 June 2021, https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/social-anxiety-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353561 
Freier, Livia. "Navigating Anxiety in Relationships." Psychology Today, 29 Nov. 2023, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/anxiety-attack/202311/navigating-anxiety-in-relationships 
Kabrick, Siri. "11 Tips for Coping with an Anxiety Disorder." Mayo Clinic Health System, 4 Oct. 2024, https://www.mayoclinichealthsystem.org/hometown-health/speaking-of-health/11-tips-for-coping-with-an-anxiety-disorder. 
 
Our theme music:
Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch:    • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun...   Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp